Opened 9 years ago

Closed 9 years ago

#813 closed enhancement/feature request (wontfix)

Speedcam should be shown by default in navigation and route

Reported by: haandoo Owned by: cp15
Priority: minor Milestone: version 0.5.0
Component: port/android Version: git master
Severity: Keywords:
Cc:

Description

SVN 4395 I notice that the speedcams from OSM are shown only when POI is on. when navigating with Car layout I would expect that speedcam are shown while the rest of POI is of 2nd interest.

Change History (8)

comment:1 Changed 9 years ago by haandoo

I tried all Car layouts and also T@H layout same behavior.

comment:2 Changed 9 years ago by tegzed

Hello Haandoo,

If you don't like this behaviour you can edit your navit.xml. you will need to move your itemgra entry for tec_common to another layer that is always switched on. (currently it is in 'POI Symbols' )

comment:3 Changed 9 years ago by haandoo

OK I will try but I maintain that when you navigate in car you are interested in radar. Also I do not understand the purpose of the 60 speed limit in tec_common. It is confusing as it shows up for any speed limitation not necessarly 60 !

comment:4 Changed 9 years ago by thomasah

I would say "Speedcam must not be shown by default."

In many countries it is at least a regulatory offence to have an operational speed cam warning system in the car, in some even if it is disabled. I can provide references if requested. IANAL, but I would say having to add something to navit.xml before it can be turned on is disfunctional enough to make every court happy, but even providing a simple GUI button to turn this system on might cross the line.

comment:5 follow-up: Changed 9 years ago by haandoo

Thomasah, I guess you are confusing with radar detectors that are forbidden in many countries. However displaying the known position of fixed cam is not an offense. Anyway geolocalisation can be used to check where the user is if it is really necessary.

comment:6 in reply to: ↑ 5 Changed 9 years ago by korrosa

Replying to https://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/user:haandoo:

Thomasah, I guess you are confusing with radar detectors that are forbidden in many countries. However displaying the known position of fixed cam is not an offense. Anyway geolocalisation can be used to check where the user is if it is really necessary.

Whilst it is more common for a country to ban radar detectors, Thomasah is correct that some (one?) countries forbid the use of equipment which shows the location of fixed speed cameras. One example is Switzerland: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit_enforcement#Switzerland or the original source in German: http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/story/21702788

comment:7 Changed 9 years ago by thomasah

OK, more details:

In Germany the corresponding law is: § 23 Abs. 1b StVO, http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo/__23.html Dem Führer eines Kraftfahrzeuges ist es untersagt, ein technisches Gerät zu betreiben oder betriebsbereit mitzuführen, das dafür bestimmt ist, Verkehrsüberwachungsmaßnahmen anzuzeigen oder zu stören. [...]

The law says roughly [with my comments]: The driver of a motor vehicle is not allowed to use or to carry along a technical device which is designated to indicate [the word can also be translated as "display", "notify" or "report"] measures for traffic supervision.

In commentaries I read that "designated" should not be read as "that's the only purpose of this device", but to even include devices which have this purpose but fail to work correctly, e.g. because POIs do not include mobile or new speed cams.

From the commentary given to the Bundesrat (upper house of the German parliament) when they had to decide wheter to ratify the above law: "Nicht nur einzelne technische Geräte wie die derzeit am meisten verbreiteten Radarwarngeräte und Laserstörgeräte werden von dem Verbot erfasst, sondern auch andere technische Lösungen, die einen vergleichbaren Effekt erreichen. Das gilt insbesondere für die Verknüpfung der Warnung vor stationären Überwachungsanlagen mit modernen Zielführungssystemen; die entsprechenden Geräte geben die Warnung ebenfalls automatisiert und ortsbezogen ab"

"Verknüpfung der Warnung vor stationären Überwachungsanlagen mit modernen Zielführungssystemen" is roughly translated: Linking of the warning for stationary surveillance system with modern [remember, this was 2001] route guidance systems [i.e. navigation systems]; the corresponding devices warn automatically and location-dependent, too.

Since the commentary is not really part of the law and since this has not been handled in court yet, it is not clear without ambiguity what is forbidden.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but:

  • Not having a database with speed cams on board is obviously fine.
  • I would say that having a POI database of speed cams is okay as long as there is no function included that can be enabled while driving (and I would say hacking the XML isn't possible while driving, please don't prove me wrong :)) that provides visual and/or audible alerts for speed cams, or "Gefahrenstelle!" (danger ahead!) as many plugins for navigation systems use to (in my oppinion unsuccessfully) try to circumvent the law.

I did not find the corresponding web page again, but I think I have read that in Belgium it is possible that in such cases the whole car can be confiscated and possibly destroyed, though I think that this would be very unlikely and is probably only part of the law to hande cases where the speed cam warner is built into the car and the car somehow gets damaged (or lost?) after confiscation.

comment:8 Changed 9 years ago by korrosa

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from new to closed
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